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Dealers
AutoWeek: Day of the Diesel
By 
Marty Padgett October 14th, 2008
Somebody must've spilled a drum of ULSD at AutoWeek's headquarters this morning, because we were graced by not one, not two, but three back-to-back articles singing the praises of Rudolf Diesel's oil burner. All well written and quite pointed, there was a stinging criticism of Ford's refusal to bring its passenger car diesels to the United States, a summary of Japan's gradual embrace of the diesel, and a drive/critique/tease of Subaru's new boxer turbodiesel set to come stateside (maybe) sometime after 2010.
Denise McCluggage excoriates Ford's Mark Fields' lack of leadership, calling him "a wuss." She sat through a recent Ford briefing on new drivetrains, claiming she endured 45 minutes of "droning before 'diesel' was mentioned, and then only in relation to trucks." She has a hard time understanding why Ford simply listens to market surveys and relies on hastily assembled PowerPoint presentations that claim low public opinion for diesel passenger cars. She believes that Ford should show some guts and lead, bringing its 65 mpg diesel Fiesta to America rather than letting Volkswagen, Audi, BMW, Honda/Acura, and perhaps Subaru lead the diesel charge and then playing me-too if those ventures succeed.
Next up, Dino Dalle Carbonare explains that even notoriously anti-diesel Japan is getting in on the sparkless bandwagon. Despite very slow sales of Mercedes E-Class CDI diesel since its intro in Japan in 2006, and a 2005 Tokyo ban on diesel passenger cars to limit city pollution, Nissan just introduced its new X-Trail 20GT with a 2.0-liter turbodiesel four. With this powerplant, the X-Trail is the first vehicle to meet Japan's new emissions standards (supposedly the strictest in the world) going into effect October '09. This engine also yields 30 percent better economy than the X-Trail's gasoline version (36 mpg vs. 27), and combined with diesel that sells for about 20 percent less than gasoline in the Japanese market, Nissan believes this compelling economic argument will force Japanese buyers to take a second look at diesel vehicles. Honda apparently feels the same way, and it is bringing a diesel to the Japanese market in '09.
The final piece of Autoweek's diesel triple-threat is Natalie Neff's article on the Subaru Boxer 2.0-liter turbodiesel, for sale in the European market in multiple models and just added to the European Forester SUV line with a six-speed manual for '09. With power numbers very similar to VW's 2.0 TDI unit (145 horsepower, 258 pound-feet), the Boxer is unique in that its horizontally opposed design eliminates the need for space-robbing balance shafts, the exhaust routing enables turbo location extremely close to the exhaust valves minimizing thermal losses, and the whole project marks the very first horizontally opposed turbodiesel engine for a production automobile. Neff claims the Forester with this diesel "never feels short of breath," and praises its smooth and quiet operation. Speaking to this engine's possible appearance in Subaru's North American lineup, she reports that Subaru says "we shouldn't expect it before 2010."
Disclaimer: Clearly, I am biased. I switched from my dream ride, a 1991 Toyota MR2, in favor of a crusty 300,000-mile Benz diesel wagon two years ago--not sexy, lean, or mean, but a relic from diesel's last heyday in America. Weekend work to get this 3,900-pound beast from rough to running has given me extreme respect for German engineering and appreciation for the longevity and durability of the diesel engine. Parts like $470-a-piece self-leveling rear shocks have kept me in local junkyards scavenging for $20 replacements to keep it all in working order. But to me, the icing on this rusty cake is the old Benz engine's ability to run on just about any oil you can throw at it, most specifically used vegetable oil. To prove a point about recycling used vegetable oil as a clean-burning alternative to ULSD, I'm traveling from Atlanta to L.A. in December on nothing but used veggie oil. And while I'm out in L.A., I'm finally getting the crusty, tri-color wagon a fresh coat of paint at a considerable discount.
Gas prices and economic woes are forcing automakers and backyard mechanics across the country (and the world) to consider new ways of powering automobiles. Diesel's resurgence is an interesting chapter in the quest for greater fuel economy, and with VW and Audi having set some mighty impressive fuel economy records as of late, the battle between gas/electric hybrids and ultra-efficient clean diesels has gone yet another exciting round.
What's your take? Should a cash-strapped Ford take a risk and bring passenger car diesels to America? Have you ever owned or driven a diesel, and if so, how would you describe your experience? Finally, do you think VW, Audi, BMW, Subaru, and Honda's diesels will change American opinion regarding the diesel, or is this popular-in-Europe engine a poor fit for American drivers?--Colin Mathews
Denise McCluggage excoriates Ford's Mark Fields' lack of leadership, calling him "a wuss." She sat through a recent Ford briefing on new drivetrains, claiming she endured 45 minutes of "droning before 'diesel' was mentioned, and then only in relation to trucks." She has a hard time understanding why Ford simply listens to market surveys and relies on hastily assembled PowerPoint presentations that claim low public opinion for diesel passenger cars. She believes that Ford should show some guts and lead, bringing its 65 mpg diesel Fiesta to America rather than letting Volkswagen, Audi, BMW, Honda/Acura, and perhaps Subaru lead the diesel charge and then playing me-too if those ventures succeed.
Next up, Dino Dalle Carbonare explains that even notoriously anti-diesel Japan is getting in on the sparkless bandwagon. Despite very slow sales of Mercedes E-Class CDI diesel since its intro in Japan in 2006, and a 2005 Tokyo ban on diesel passenger cars to limit city pollution, Nissan just introduced its new X-Trail 20GT with a 2.0-liter turbodiesel four. With this powerplant, the X-Trail is the first vehicle to meet Japan's new emissions standards (supposedly the strictest in the world) going into effect October '09. This engine also yields 30 percent better economy than the X-Trail's gasoline version (36 mpg vs. 27), and combined with diesel that sells for about 20 percent less than gasoline in the Japanese market, Nissan believes this compelling economic argument will force Japanese buyers to take a second look at diesel vehicles. Honda apparently feels the same way, and it is bringing a diesel to the Japanese market in '09.
The final piece of Autoweek's diesel triple-threat is Natalie Neff's article on the Subaru Boxer 2.0-liter turbodiesel, for sale in the European market in multiple models and just added to the European Forester SUV line with a six-speed manual for '09. With power numbers very similar to VW's 2.0 TDI unit (145 horsepower, 258 pound-feet), the Boxer is unique in that its horizontally opposed design eliminates the need for space-robbing balance shafts, the exhaust routing enables turbo location extremely close to the exhaust valves minimizing thermal losses, and the whole project marks the very first horizontally opposed turbodiesel engine for a production automobile. Neff claims the Forester with this diesel "never feels short of breath," and praises its smooth and quiet operation. Speaking to this engine's possible appearance in Subaru's North American lineup, she reports that Subaru says "we shouldn't expect it before 2010."
Disclaimer: Clearly, I am biased. I switched from my dream ride, a 1991 Toyota MR2, in favor of a crusty 300,000-mile Benz diesel wagon two years ago--not sexy, lean, or mean, but a relic from diesel's last heyday in America. Weekend work to get this 3,900-pound beast from rough to running has given me extreme respect for German engineering and appreciation for the longevity and durability of the diesel engine. Parts like $470-a-piece self-leveling rear shocks have kept me in local junkyards scavenging for $20 replacements to keep it all in working order. But to me, the icing on this rusty cake is the old Benz engine's ability to run on just about any oil you can throw at it, most specifically used vegetable oil. To prove a point about recycling used vegetable oil as a clean-burning alternative to ULSD, I'm traveling from Atlanta to L.A. in December on nothing but used veggie oil. And while I'm out in L.A., I'm finally getting the crusty, tri-color wagon a fresh coat of paint at a considerable discount.
Gas prices and economic woes are forcing automakers and backyard mechanics across the country (and the world) to consider new ways of powering automobiles. Diesel's resurgence is an interesting chapter in the quest for greater fuel economy, and with VW and Audi having set some mighty impressive fuel economy records as of late, the battle between gas/electric hybrids and ultra-efficient clean diesels has gone yet another exciting round.
What's your take? Should a cash-strapped Ford take a risk and bring passenger car diesels to America? Have you ever owned or driven a diesel, and if so, how would you describe your experience? Finally, do you think VW, Audi, BMW, Subaru, and Honda's diesels will change American opinion regarding the diesel, or is this popular-in-Europe engine a poor fit for American drivers?--Colin Mathews
Rex Roy
Responses (7 total)
By ad | Posted: Oct 15th 2008, 12:38:58 AM
The day Ford offers a diesel Focus or Fiesta will the only day I buy a Ford. I have seen them in Europe and pined after them every time. I will drive my 1981 Mercedes 240D until someone brings a high quality, small diesel hatchback to this country. Be it an Astra, Forester, Focus, etc, I don't care. Please everyone, don't make me settle for the sometimes questionable quality of VW to get my new diesel!
By Philip | Posted: Oct 15th 2008, 12:50:08 PM
Question:
European new car prices are higher than in the US. Can Ford/GM just retool their factories in the US to build the latest Euro Focus/Astra etc and sell them at the same price as the current US Focus? Or would the production costs of these models be too high?
By Ed | Posted: Oct 15th 2008, 12:55:14 PM
It is quite true that cars are more expensive in Europe, but people buy much smaller and less powerful models there, so actually the median new car price is LESS than it is here.
It is also true that Detroit never could produce a small car at a profit, esp. if made here and not in mexico oro Korea as the FOcus and the Aveo respectively.
But now with the higher gas prices there has been a shift in consumer demand and the automakers will charge more for the small cars, just because the public is willing to pay the extra price for better MPG.
For many, many car buyers in the US, esp. buyers of large cars and suvs and pickups, the MODERN Diesel (NOT your father's!) is obviously the best solution, and will improve your MPG DRAMATICALLY with NO LOSS of Performance.
By ed | Posted: Oct 15th 2008, 12:56:44 PM
AD: Do not worry, many, many other makers will introduce Diesels, Modern diesels, and some of the MOST RELIABLE, such as HONDA,a surprise, because its civics and accords were already very fuel efficient. ALso BMW and esp. M-B already fofer diesels, and Audi will soon follow.
By Bob | Posted: Oct 15th 2008, 04:59:31 PM
I don't know about you, but I'd much rather breathe in carcinogenic soot than something horrible like carbon dioxide! And it's a lot easier to bang through the gears when your motor redlines at 3,500 rpm instead of 7,000. Bring on the diesels!
To that last question, yeah Ford should definitely take the risk. Just because 90% of people aren't interested in diesels, and just because no diesel powered car has ever sold here in any sort of volume, why should that prevent them from taking a huge gamble on it? Denise is right, if they aren't willing to bet the farm on an idiotic long shot, they are wusses.
By John V | Posted: Oct 16th 2008, 12:08:08 PM
(1) The public health data on nanoparticulates, such as it is, is not looking good. And I don't believe those are regulated at all, currently, even by the Tier 2 Bin 5 standards.
(2) A Focus with a 1.6-litre diesel in Europe costs roughly $25,000, depending on country and current exchange rates. How many of the commenters (Ad?) would pay THAT?
(3) Japanese makers started to build diesels not out of the goodness of their hearts, but because 50% of the Euro market is now diesel and they were completely locked out of that half by not having diesels.
(4) And the ONLY reason half the Euro market is diesel is because the fuel has been *heavily* tax-advantaged for two decades, dating back to a French truckdrivers' strike over fuel-tax increases (which were rescinded on diesel but not gasoline).
(5) Finally, I don't have a dog in this race, but I'm amused that diesel partisans are now fully as shrill and narrow as hybrid partisans. Each side has its pros and cons; as always, the market will decide. Unless, of course, the US government starts picking specific technologies (ethanol, anyone?) rather than setting performance standards and letting the carmakers figure out how best to meet them.
(6) Oh ... one last question ... in the near-term, how do your elderly or female friends feel about filling up their diesel over by where the semis tank up? I'm just sayin' ....
By 44 mpg by 2010 | Posted: Oct 19th 2008, 02:56:30 AM
Philip, this may sound like a dumb question but please consider it carefully.
1) How can GM bring a gasoline Vauxhall/Opel Astra (built in Europe that sells for about 17,000 British Pound Sterling in the UK) to the US and sell it for less than $19,000 USD?
2) If the price differiential between a UK gasoline and turbo diesel (with DPF) Astra is about 800 BPS ... approximately $1,600 USD, what is the true possible pricing for a diesel Astra in the US? Maybe less than $21,000 USD? With full California compliance maybe $23,000 USD?
3) Doesn't this raises the question on all of Ford/Mazda/Volvo and GM/Chevy/Vauxhall/Opel diesel offerings available in Europe?
Bob, the small Euro turbo diesels generally REDLINE at or above 4,500 RPM.
Regarding John V's concern (#1) you might like to look at the particulate mass of the 2009 Fiesta diesel
http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/search/vehicleDetails.asp?id=21952
And then John V's concern (#6) about elderly and females fueling their diesel vehicles, 80% of ALL gas stations in our area have their diesel pumps mixed in with their gas pumps and NJ is NOT "self service" ... no increased risk differences there!
Not bad for a 50% or more reduction in fuel consumption, at least in my opinion.
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